I meant I can't imagine doing that, as a mother. I never could, and since my daughter's death in June, I can imagine it even less than before. Children are not possessions you throw away if they don't work the way you want them to.
These Christofascists are why my gay brother didn’t come out to our mom until last year. At age 56. Think about that for a second. Our mom is a classic evangelical, all-in for Trump and his shit. But she’s our mom. My brother loves her, and was afraid she would never see or talk to him again if he told her his truth. While she didn’t do that, she hasn’t exactly been accepting, either. Had these protections, like not telling the parents, been available 40 years ago, my brother might have lived a life with a lot less emotional and physical pain, both at school and at home.
It shocks me that so many people don’t understand the point you tried to communicate to the handsome young Hispanic dad in the hotel lobby, Evan: “It’s not about you.” It’s like a plague of narcissism x lack of empathy and imagination has descended upon people (probably c/o social media and the pandemic). And so people just think everything is ABOUT THEM, without realising that, hey, guess what, there are people out there in the world who are different from you and THEY need protecting because THEY go through some shit that YOU fortunately don’t.
I don’t work in a factory, or on a construction site, or drive trucks for a living, and I doubt I ever will. Nor do I know many people who do, But I’m sure as HELL keen for those who do to have every workplace protection law they need SO THEY DON’T GET KILLED or accidentally kill someone else. And I don’t kvetch about those laws preventing me from using my own kitchen, or stepladder, or car.
The "right" just wants to eliminate laws on child marriage, force 12 year old victims of rape and incest to carry to delivery or death, and only THEY can determine what your children learn in school.
You have more patience than I. I am too old and I don't want to do this any more.
"If a child is excelling and getting along well socially and in grade seven they decide to try on some new pronouns, that doesn’t warrant a phone call home."
And if you are a parent and haven't already figured it out, you are a bad parent. My cousin knew that his daughter is gay before she even did. So when she came out, he was all like, yeah we know! And everything was fine. But to be that Inattentive As a parent is just unfathomable to me. Every sneeze, burp, new word new favorite color takes on this massive importance in a parents life. And especially to not notice that your kid might be trans. That takes some fucking terrible parenting to miss that. And no kid is good at hiding something like that from an attentive parent.
I would strongly disagree on that. I have a trans child. Not a single person in the large extended family saw that coming, and there wasn't a whisper of it until college, which was a mere subway or bus ride away (or walking distance if you have the time). My daughter-in-law, who is also trans, was on a very different trajectory. So, no, a person's truth and self-understanding can change over the years and is not necessarily set in stone from a young age and obvious to all with eyes to see.
Agree. Our story is similar to yours. Not the slightest whisper of it until college. I suppose some of it comes from stereotypes that every transgender female is femme and every transgender male is masc, when the line is a lot more blurry than that.
I am transgender. I figured it out, after years of denial and suppression, when I was 37. There were thoughts of “I can’t be gay, because I like boys” when I was a teenager. There were years of Not Like Other Girls behavior.
And when I told my parents this summer, it still blindsided them.
I would like to think that if it’s something that my child is aware of, I will be too, because they will want to talk about it. That’s how I would hope to know. Because we can talk about it.
I was very involved with the LGBT community in my school as a kid. I would say over half the kids didn’t want their parents to know that they were some form of LGBT and some of them had extremely anti-LGBT parents. My best friend was gay and he was terrified that his step dad would beat him up, ship him off to conversion therapy camp or kick him out. The guy was scary and would often hit him to make him “man up”. We were afraid to tell anyone about the abuse because it could get a lot worse if the school outed him on purpose or accident. I had him stay over at my house a lot. He was just trying to make it to 18 or until he could go away for college.
The school is still asking for more colored pencils. They don’t have funds for secret surgeries.
If I lived in one of those places I’d tell my kids to announce new names every day, new genders new pronouns new orientation - just to flood the system. My 9 yo would do that. She is down to disrupt for justice. The neighbor kid has learned the nonviolent resistance slow walk to hold the school bus in the morning. I bet she’d do the same.
Just like the people who report the Bible for smut at school to make a point, kids with cool parents could make a point with frequent identity changes.
It’s sad that that orange menace is in such a boarding school elitist bubble that he thinks kids are at school for a few days at a time. Or that he only saw his kids every few days even if they weren’t at boarding school. Or maybe he’s just had so many women in his life take a few days to go have some work done. Like Vanky who hid some of her genetic face curse and Melon who got new kidneys.
When contacting parents about their kid, teachers aren’t supposed to mention the names of other students they are involved with, whether it’s disrupting class with fart noises, crush drama, or even a fight. You, THEIR PARENT, are responsible for asking them about that, in your home, where your rules apply. If you aren’t able to learn who your child truly is under those parameters, it is 100% your fault because you’ve shown them you aren’t safe to tell the truth to.
If Moms for Liberty really want to do something for kids how about working to ban assault weapons and keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous unstable people
I’m a pre and post op nurse. People don’t just go to surgery willy nilly, and we can’t get whole ass adults to follow pre op instructions. Even an advanced teenager is probably going to struggle to get all pre operative tasks cleared without a parent’s knowledge. How are they going to explain a random lab draw resulting in MyChart? Plus, I live in Minnesota and I think there MIGHT be three places statewide who do genital surgery.
Also, Riley Gaines is famous for placing fifth in a swimming meet where a trans woman competed. If that trans woman didn’t compete she’d have come in 4th.
Well done, Evan. I was watching my fave Judge Boyd on YouTube...and she had a case of a father who beat his 2-YEAR-OLD SON because the kid wanted to play with dolls and he "didn't want my only son to be gay." So...yeah, we have a long way to go.
Curious if the separation of kids from their families, that happened under tffg administration, entered your conversation with this man? Some of those kids have not been able to be reunited with their family due to "act first, ask questions later...maybe" tactics...pretty sure in the mass deportation plan of Project 2025 those same tactics will apply. It would be like Abbott's human trafficking program on steroids, people being dumped randomly, without resources, regardless if they were born here. Vote 💙
Good point, Evan, about kids having their own agency, and sadly, in some cases, need to keep things from their parents. And glad that you point out about the idiocy of kids getting expensive surgery at school, without their parents knowing about it. The schools don't have the resources for that and no insurance company is going to approve it without the parents' consent. Besides, who can afford it without insurance?
What trump and Vance are doing, or trying to do, is to scare people into voting for them. It clearly is working with some people, but, if the polls can be believed, not with most. It's heartening that most people have not lost their ability to think and to reason.
No one I've talked to believes trump's and Vance's lies. I am going by what is being reported online. I can believe that trump would actually believe this, as he has no experience with public schools, but Vance has, and others in trump's orbit probably have, and should know better. Most Americans have had experience with public schools - either as a student, a parent, a teacher, or any combo of those three. So they should know better. People who claim to believe it, are trying to use it for political gain, or to excuse their support of the traitor.
I had the ugliest interaction last night. Someone I love is hearing this nonsense, and the someone is impressionable. I was advocating for tolerance, compassion and kindness. Some one else I love, for reason I can’t fathom, suddenly went bonkers and started talking loudly over me, using their “joking voice” and just relentlessly mocked, not letting me get a complete sentence. I eventually stopped, but they kept inserting it everywhere, hammering home the mocking, and even got in a few on my temperament and home decorating. It was…awful. I couldn’t sleep, I held it in my body, and I hope by putting it out there I can let it go.
This shit is so pervasive, and can be so shocking in your own household. I don’t know why this person attacked. They do not in any way support this crap that I have *ever* seen. I even said that I was shocked at their lack of support, and they said they didn’t care about the issue, they just thought it was funny.
I would think it would be important to always advocate for kindness and understanding, rather than to blow stuff off as a “joke” and “funny”.
Ta, Evan. So many of my clients were thrown out of parental homes when they came out! They do need and deserve protection.
I can't imagine. I just can't. Can't.
I can, because my father absolutely would have if I’d come out before moving out. He has said as much in front of me.
I'm sorry that this was the situation for you.
I meant I can't imagine doing that, as a mother. I never could, and since my daughter's death in June, I can imagine it even less than before. Children are not possessions you throw away if they don't work the way you want them to.
I hope your life is OK now.
It’s getting there. My mastectomy is in a couple months, and that will help a lot.
May you experience the best possible outcome, Laz.
Thank you for being one of the good ones, Ellie. May your daughter's memory be for a blessing, and may you find comfort.
I'm not sure about how good I am, but thank you for your kind wishes.
like
These Christofascists are why my gay brother didn’t come out to our mom until last year. At age 56. Think about that for a second. Our mom is a classic evangelical, all-in for Trump and his shit. But she’s our mom. My brother loves her, and was afraid she would never see or talk to him again if he told her his truth. While she didn’t do that, she hasn’t exactly been accepting, either. Had these protections, like not telling the parents, been available 40 years ago, my brother might have lived a life with a lot less emotional and physical pain, both at school and at home.
It shocks me that so many people don’t understand the point you tried to communicate to the handsome young Hispanic dad in the hotel lobby, Evan: “It’s not about you.” It’s like a plague of narcissism x lack of empathy and imagination has descended upon people (probably c/o social media and the pandemic). And so people just think everything is ABOUT THEM, without realising that, hey, guess what, there are people out there in the world who are different from you and THEY need protecting because THEY go through some shit that YOU fortunately don’t.
I don’t work in a factory, or on a construction site, or drive trucks for a living, and I doubt I ever will. Nor do I know many people who do, But I’m sure as HELL keen for those who do to have every workplace protection law they need SO THEY DON’T GET KILLED or accidentally kill someone else. And I don’t kvetch about those laws preventing me from using my own kitchen, or stepladder, or car.
Excellent job site vs kitchen analogy :)
I work in the trades. I’m using that!
The left wants to take your kids!!!!!
The "right" just wants to eliminate laws on child marriage, force 12 year old victims of rape and incest to carry to delivery or death, and only THEY can determine what your children learn in school.
You have more patience than I. I am too old and I don't want to do this any more.
You also forgot that they want to send those children to work in the coal mines, too.
"If a child is excelling and getting along well socially and in grade seven they decide to try on some new pronouns, that doesn’t warrant a phone call home."
And if you are a parent and haven't already figured it out, you are a bad parent. My cousin knew that his daughter is gay before she even did. So when she came out, he was all like, yeah we know! And everything was fine. But to be that Inattentive As a parent is just unfathomable to me. Every sneeze, burp, new word new favorite color takes on this massive importance in a parents life. And especially to not notice that your kid might be trans. That takes some fucking terrible parenting to miss that. And no kid is good at hiding something like that from an attentive parent.
I would strongly disagree on that. I have a trans child. Not a single person in the large extended family saw that coming, and there wasn't a whisper of it until college, which was a mere subway or bus ride away (or walking distance if you have the time). My daughter-in-law, who is also trans, was on a very different trajectory. So, no, a person's truth and self-understanding can change over the years and is not necessarily set in stone from a young age and obvious to all with eyes to see.
Agree. Our story is similar to yours. Not the slightest whisper of it until college. I suppose some of it comes from stereotypes that every transgender female is femme and every transgender male is masc, when the line is a lot more blurry than that.
I defer to actual experience then!
Thanks for the response!
(:
You are most welcome.
or if they are good at it, hopefully it's a defense mechanism against overbearing control, abuse etc.
"hopefully" for lack of a better word OTTOMH
I am transgender. I figured it out, after years of denial and suppression, when I was 37. There were thoughts of “I can’t be gay, because I like boys” when I was a teenager. There were years of Not Like Other Girls behavior.
And when I told my parents this summer, it still blindsided them.
I would like to think that if it’s something that my child is aware of, I will be too, because they will want to talk about it. That’s how I would hope to know. Because we can talk about it.
Yep!
This bit of Khalil Gibran’s The Prophet, called ‘On Children’ and included in Ally Stevenson’s great Substack yesterday:
And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, Speak to us of Children. And he said:
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer’s hand be for gladness; For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.
https://open.substack.com/pub/allyhamilton/p/hold-it-against-your-bones?r=1kcdc&utm_medium=ios
I have always loved that passage!
Wonderful and apt! Thank you!
I was very involved with the LGBT community in my school as a kid. I would say over half the kids didn’t want their parents to know that they were some form of LGBT and some of them had extremely anti-LGBT parents. My best friend was gay and he was terrified that his step dad would beat him up, ship him off to conversion therapy camp or kick him out. The guy was scary and would often hit him to make him “man up”. We were afraid to tell anyone about the abuse because it could get a lot worse if the school outed him on purpose or accident. I had him stay over at my house a lot. He was just trying to make it to 18 or until he could go away for college.
This is reminiscent of Kamala Harris's best friend in school, who came to live with her family because she was being abused at home.
And it’s parents like these who result in teens who can’t imagine life as an adult, because they don’t think they’ll make it that far. I didn’t.
The school is still asking for more colored pencils. They don’t have funds for secret surgeries.
If I lived in one of those places I’d tell my kids to announce new names every day, new genders new pronouns new orientation - just to flood the system. My 9 yo would do that. She is down to disrupt for justice. The neighbor kid has learned the nonviolent resistance slow walk to hold the school bus in the morning. I bet she’d do the same.
Just like the people who report the Bible for smut at school to make a point, kids with cool parents could make a point with frequent identity changes.
It’s sad that that orange menace is in such a boarding school elitist bubble that he thinks kids are at school for a few days at a time. Or that he only saw his kids every few days even if they weren’t at boarding school. Or maybe he’s just had so many women in his life take a few days to go have some work done. Like Vanky who hid some of her genetic face curse and Melon who got new kidneys.
When contacting parents about their kid, teachers aren’t supposed to mention the names of other students they are involved with, whether it’s disrupting class with fart noises, crush drama, or even a fight. You, THEIR PARENT, are responsible for asking them about that, in your home, where your rules apply. If you aren’t able to learn who your child truly is under those parameters, it is 100% your fault because you’ve shown them you aren’t safe to tell the truth to.
yeesh — even with exposure to online cesspools as relatively minimal as mine, i spent a few seconds COMPLETELY misinterpreting "crush drama" 🤢
If Moms for Liberty really want to do something for kids how about working to ban assault weapons and keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous unstable people
I’m a pre and post op nurse. People don’t just go to surgery willy nilly, and we can’t get whole ass adults to follow pre op instructions. Even an advanced teenager is probably going to struggle to get all pre operative tasks cleared without a parent’s knowledge. How are they going to explain a random lab draw resulting in MyChart? Plus, I live in Minnesota and I think there MIGHT be three places statewide who do genital surgery.
Also, Riley Gaines is famous for placing fifth in a swimming meet where a trans woman competed. If that trans woman didn’t compete she’d have come in 4th.
Well done, Evan. I was watching my fave Judge Boyd on YouTube...and she had a case of a father who beat his 2-YEAR-OLD SON because the kid wanted to play with dolls and he "didn't want my only son to be gay." So...yeah, we have a long way to go.
That's why they called GI Joe an action figure instead of a doll.
Curious if the separation of kids from their families, that happened under tffg administration, entered your conversation with this man? Some of those kids have not been able to be reunited with their family due to "act first, ask questions later...maybe" tactics...pretty sure in the mass deportation plan of Project 2025 those same tactics will apply. It would be like Abbott's human trafficking program on steroids, people being dumped randomly, without resources, regardless if they were born here. Vote 💙
A. MEN. X 1,000.
That’s all i’ve got.
Good point, Evan, about kids having their own agency, and sadly, in some cases, need to keep things from their parents. And glad that you point out about the idiocy of kids getting expensive surgery at school, without their parents knowing about it. The schools don't have the resources for that and no insurance company is going to approve it without the parents' consent. Besides, who can afford it without insurance?
What trump and Vance are doing, or trying to do, is to scare people into voting for them. It clearly is working with some people, but, if the polls can be believed, not with most. It's heartening that most people have not lost their ability to think and to reason.
No one I've talked to believes trump's and Vance's lies. I am going by what is being reported online. I can believe that trump would actually believe this, as he has no experience with public schools, but Vance has, and others in trump's orbit probably have, and should know better. Most Americans have had experience with public schools - either as a student, a parent, a teacher, or any combo of those three. So they should know better. People who claim to believe it, are trying to use it for political gain, or to excuse their support of the traitor.
I had the ugliest interaction last night. Someone I love is hearing this nonsense, and the someone is impressionable. I was advocating for tolerance, compassion and kindness. Some one else I love, for reason I can’t fathom, suddenly went bonkers and started talking loudly over me, using their “joking voice” and just relentlessly mocked, not letting me get a complete sentence. I eventually stopped, but they kept inserting it everywhere, hammering home the mocking, and even got in a few on my temperament and home decorating. It was…awful. I couldn’t sleep, I held it in my body, and I hope by putting it out there I can let it go.
This shit is so pervasive, and can be so shocking in your own household. I don’t know why this person attacked. They do not in any way support this crap that I have *ever* seen. I even said that I was shocked at their lack of support, and they said they didn’t care about the issue, they just thought it was funny.
I would think it would be important to always advocate for kindness and understanding, rather than to blow stuff off as a “joke” and “funny”.
Sorry that happened - we are in a long national nightmare - I see it as it collective national nervous system being inflamed